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71
Voynich Manuscript / Re: Computation approach to Circular Astrolabes
« Last post by Phil_The_Rodent on May 27, 2013, 01:23:41 PM »
Ya, it was rough just to give you a kind of idea on approach. Was kinda looking at it like this:

o = a
k/t = l
d = q
y = ah
l = n
chd = y
Sh = r
ar = f
chg = al

ok-o-d-y      <>      al-a-q-ah      <>      Al-Ha-q'-ah
ok-o-l-y      <>      al-a-n-ah      <>      Al-Ha-n'-ah
ot-o-l-chd-y      <>      al-a-n-y-ah      <>      Al-Al-y-ah
ok-o-l-Sh-y      <>      al-a-n-r-ah      <>      Al-Ar-nab
ok-o-l-ar      <>      al-a-n-f      <>      Al-Anf
ot-o-l-chg      <>      al-a-n-al      <>      Al-Hamal

Obviously not perfect, but, okay for the purposes of demonstration. I should mention, and probably in caps, that this is almost certainly not correct. It's just a rough-up.

I've downloaded the paper and done an OCR pass on it. When I compile the lists out, I'll post them up.
72
Voynich Manuscript / Re: Computation approach to Circular Astrolabes
« Last post by Phil_The_Rodent on May 26, 2013, 11:45:35 PM »
Just loose work, hoping for something like this:

okody      <>      Al-Haq'ah
okoly      <>      Al-Han'ah
otolchdy      <>      Al-Alyah
okolShy      <>      Al-Arnab
okolar      <>      Al-Anf
otolchg      <>      Al-Hamal
otoloaram   <>      Al-Athafi
73
Voynich Manuscript / Re: Computation approach to Circular Astrolabes
« Last post by Phil_The_Rodent on May 26, 2013, 12:27:08 PM »
Thanks for the links!

Ya, if the VM was staight up Arabic, I'm sure it would have been solved a long time ago. As I mentioned Feb 10 of last year, the language seems like it might be some sort of "localized non-Semetic Afroasiatic language which exhibits some Semetic tendencies". But if Arabic astronomy had some sort of influence on the VM nomenclature, then there remains some hope (however small) that the stars are not in pure Voynichese but are transliterated (in whole or in part) from Arabic names (or sourced from another such catalog).
74
Voynich Manuscript / Re: Computation approach to Circular Astrolabes
« Last post by Phil_The_Rodent on May 24, 2013, 10:21:59 AM »
Ya, you know, I haven't quite returned to this as I have a lot of deadlines coming due, but I noticed that the frequencies of starting letters is REALLY close to Arabic, especially if k and t are taken to be the same letter.

Of course, there's a problem there also, in that one would presume "ok" would then transliterate to "AL", but there are a small amount of Arabic stars starting with "L", where there are no VM stars that start with K. Doesn't mean the Arabic "L" stars are included though.

I was finding that otherwise, the frequency distributions seems very close indeed, both in first letters, as well as in the largest chunk of starting bigrams, which are those starting with "o", with "ok" leading the charge.

The uniqueness of words could possibly be explained if the VM vocabulary is based on a phonetic rendering rather than a lexicon. In that case, ks and ts might be presumed to be approximately the same sound, but modified based on what follows the character (that is, the t shape for L might be an emphasis if followed by, say, an H or something).

Trying to address the first problem, which is that I didn't expect QUITE so many unique words in the list. Obviously, without a harmonized star catalog, the approach listed in step one is useless.
75
Voynich Manuscript / Re: Computation approach to Circular Astrolabes
« Last post by Phil_The_Rodent on May 21, 2013, 02:15:33 PM »
Where possible, the word at 12:00 or the first word immediately to the right of 12:00 starts the list, and follows in a clock-wise rotation. In some cases where the circle was incomplete, words are listed starting at the left-most. These instances are denoted (l-r).

As concerns the rings, ring 1 is to be considered the center-most ring, ring 2 the circle that encloses this, and ring 3, if present, is the outermost ring.

The number of words in each list is noted at the start of each line.

My draft transcription:

70r Pisces
ring 2 (19): oty ar, okaly, otody, otalg, otaldar, okody, opysam, chekchy, otaly, otalarar, otaldy, okeoly, okyly, okees, otalalg, okaly, otar, oty, oky ody
ring 1 (10): otalar, otalam, dolaram, okaram, oteosal, salols, okaldal, ykolaiin, ataram, ota*al

70v Aries 1
ring 2 (10): opchey sal, otakaiman, okalal, otaly, oalcheeg, oteeodals, okolShy, otShShdy, otal ypSharal, otalchy tar am ly
ring 1 (5): otalaiin, oteo alalS araly, oteoeey otal okeal ar, otear araydy, okoly

71r Aries 2
ring 2 (10): otcoaldy, oteolar, okcoaly, otaleky, opald?ar, cheary, oteotey sary, otalaly, oteos arar, okldam
ring 1 (5): otolchdy, otoloaram, oteeol, otolchg, otal dar

71v1 Taurus 1
ring 2 (10): okolar, otchody, alcphy, otaiin, okaraiin, otar araly, opalar am gain, opalor ar, char orom, chpaly
ring 1 (5): otalody, otalaiin, otar Shar, Shol Shdy, opacpom

71v2Taurus 2
ring 2 (10): oaiin ar ary, okalam, ytalShgy, char alep, otaraldy, otaiin otain, otalp as ainam, ochol Sharam, oShodady, chdaiirdairy
ring 1 (5): otchoShy, otchdal, okeey ary, otainy, oparalar

71v3 Gemini
ring 3 (l-r) (5): opchdajy, oklairdy, okaram, okairy, okealar
ring 2 (15): okal, okaly, okal, okeey ary, oteeary, otairgy, okaircham, okeal, otars?, okady, orary, okyd, otalam, otaraldy, okalar
ring 1 (9): ralal, okam, otalShy, okaldy, chasar, *tam, ainaly, okarcham, otal

71v4 Cancer
ring 3 (12): oraiinam, osarSheee*, otaShaiin, opoiiis?oin al aes, ypoiin alaly, oteey daiin, oeeodaiin, opSholdy, t** okaiin, ykalairol, olkalaiin, olalsy
ring 2 (11): ytairal, oeeeSaiin, o*, och*y pady, p**eeeS*ly, ykairaiin oiral, okalar, orar*, olaiin olackhy, olpSheoral, aralkam
ring 1 (7): ypary, oraiiral, ytoar Shar, octho, aral, oletal, opalal

72r1 Leo
ring 2 (l-r) (12): orchey, ykam, okey, otcheody, okyeeShy, **opaiin, akaly, otoly, opalals, She** ocphey, daiin chepy, oteey dche*l
ring 1 (l-r) (9): choleey, oky, chcthey, laly, oeegy, odairan, okary, oeeShaiin, oteeShd

72r2 Virgo
ring 2 (18): okeoram, airaim, oShesy, okeosy, cheockhy, choloy, Sheoeky, oteadar, opchdysd, oteead, yteod, okeody, okeoldy, ykeeor, opaiinam, cheoldy, oeegey, oeeodaiin
ring 1 (12): ockhol, oeejy, opalg, okeeog, olkar, occdaly, cheosy, opch*y, yteedy, oraiin, okeorar, okaiin

72v Libra
ring 2 (20): ocpShy, oees, okeeoly, odal, aiinod, odady, oteod, yteod, okchody, okal, ytaly, oeeeos, oteopy, cheoepy, ykeedy, oeeaty, octhy, oteoly, okeoly, oeees
ring 1 (10): oiiny, oeey, ote*y, ypail, okalair, occody, okeal, occoly, okygy, okeey

73r Scorpio
ring 3 (l-r) (4): otaly, chockhy, okegy, yteeody
ring 2 (16): oteedyl, akeedy, okeey, okeedy, ykeeary, oteeosy, Shekal, oteegyg, okedal, chdy, dalShey, opaiin, okeos, otey, otaly, okeody
ring 1 (10): okary, okeeody?, oyteedy, oky, chepy, otal, Shek, ar, kar, okeos

73v Sagittarius
ring 2 (16): ogees, echsy, okeor, *opals, ykeody, oteogy, yp**, ypaiin y, opcheesy, araiiny, ykeeody, okeos, ykeear, qokeoly, okeogy, Sheol
ring 1 (10): cheg, oty, ara*, okal, ykey, ykche, oteog, ykey, opal, otegy
76
Voynich Manuscript / Re: Lets look at the Voynich
« Last post by Phil_The_Rodent on May 20, 2013, 09:21:40 PM »
Ooh, found a very clear mistake. I'm transcribing the first abril (goat) page and on the inner ring right behind the goat, the "oteo alale araly" has clearly been changed to "oteo alals araly".
77
Voynich Manuscript / Computation approach to Circular Astrolabes
« Last post by Phil_The_Rodent on May 20, 2013, 12:16:06 PM »
Here is a possible approach to a solve:

Task 1:
Subtask 1.1: Match up all the words. Run these in a column in excel.
Subtask 1.2: On the header row, list the months
Subtask 1.3: In binary, fill in the rest of the cells, adding a 1 where a "celestial object" appears in a given month, and a 0 when it does not appear.
Subtask 1.4: Pull out the binary strings and convert to decimal.

What you are left with here is a unique numerical description of an object over time.

Task 2:
Do the same thing with astronomical objects from other charts.

Task 3:
Subtask 3.1: Bring all the numbers together on an excel page. Column one contains the source data, column 2 contains the numerical identifier, column 3 contains the object itself.
Subtask 3.2: Sort the page by the numerical identifier (column 2).
Subtask 3.3: Start tabulating correlations where numerical identifiers from other sources match the numerical identifiers from the VM Astrolabes.

In this manner, we don't have to worry about missing information (lack of 12 astronomical objects) or instances of mislabelling, as you are matching the objects themselves.
78
Voynich Manuscript / Re: Lets look at the Voynich
« Last post by Phil_The_Rodent on May 20, 2013, 09:11:22 AM »
I posted a possible computational approach in a new thread.
79
Voynich Manuscript / Re: Lets look at the Voynich
« Last post by Phil_The_Rodent on May 19, 2013, 02:22:30 PM »
Now that I think on it, that's actually probably one of the strongest methods to attack the VM. If those are stars, then the labeling of them should be somewhat consistent throughout the Zodiac charts. If we can get some decent correlations happening in the nomenclature, we can start looking through historical star maps. Say, for example, "otchdal" was found in April, May, September and October, we would list include this as a piece of a puzzle. Given enough such pieces, you might be able to weed out a solve or two that would satisfy all the conditions (one of which being that a particular named star or constellation only occurs in those months).

There was an application that made historical star maps, I recall. But it was years ago when I looked at it and don't recall the name. Basically, you could plug in a date and a geographical area, and it would provide a star chart. If anyone remembers the name, or knows of a similar application, please reply!

Star charts vary both in time and by geography, so this could help pinpoint both a period and a region for the writing of the VM. It would also obviously provide a "starter list" of words, and solidly dismiss the "hoax" theory.
80
Voynich Manuscript / Re: Lets look at the Voynich
« Last post by Phil_The_Rodent on May 18, 2013, 12:50:22 PM »
Thank you for the reply. :)

I think a complete dismissal of all preconceptions is probably the healthiest approach, but when obvious technology is present, then that may be a clue as to origin.

The question of whether this is part of a Zodiac is an interesting question also, but I think it is. The real question here that I would ask is why the year starts in Pisces.

I see the Julian Calendar started on March 1st between 988 and 1492. Engand had March 25th for a while.

Here are some other calendars that start in March:
Babylonian
Aztec
India
Sikh Nanakshahi
Iranian
Zoroastrian
Balinese
Telugu
Kashmiri
Gudi Padwa
Ugadi
Sindhi
Thelemic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year

Of course, some of those fall outside what is currently considered the days of Pisces.
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