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Aaron

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2005, 10:20:41 AM »
The Revelation is an unusual animal indeed... methinks it would be a little daunting even if there were a hidden cipher. ;)

Cindy Smith

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2005, 03:38:36 PM »
The Revelation is an unusual animal indeed... methinks it would be a little daunting even if there were a hidden cipher. ;)

Aaron,

  The Revelation to John is indeed an unusual critter because it is written mostly in code.  The early Christians were fearful that their letters and other writings would be captured by the Romans, leading to many deaths, so works such as this one were written in code.  An example is the word "Babylon" -- this is the code word for "Rome."  Like much Jewish literature of the time, it also makes use of gematria/numerology, and you must understand that code, too, to decipher the meaning of the messages.  In the Gospels, take a look at the miracle of the multiplication of the loaves in Matthew 14 and 15 (also Mark 6, Luke 9, and John 6).  In the first, there are five loaves and two fish, in the second version, there are seven loaves and a few fish; also, there are 12 baskets of leftover in the first and 7 in the second.  In the first story Jesus feeds 5,000 people and in the second version 4,000 people.  One interpretation I have read is that the seven loaves represents the traditional number of gentile nations while 12 represents the number of Jewish tribes.  In one story, the gentiles must become Jewish to become Christian, while in the other story, the meaning is that the gentiles will become Christian yet remain gentiles.  In John 21:11, Peter, at the behest of Jesus, pulls in 153 large fish.  There has been much speculation about the meaning of this number.  Jerome claims that the Greeks catalogued 153 different species of fish, so the catch is meant to symbolize all the nations of the world.  Or 153 is the sum of numbers from 1 to 17.  Or it references Ezekiel 47:10.  There are many other examples of numerology in the Bible.  Also, the Zohar, a book of Jewish mysticism, is written in code, and, if you don't understand the code, you cannot understand what it means.  I studied the Zohar with a rabbi at Emory and learned to decode the text of the Zohar, and it was fascinating.  I hope to take an advanced course again someday.

Cindy Smith
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"As for you, Daniel, keep secret the message and seal the book until the end time; many shall fall away and evil shall increase.  -- Daniel 12:4

Aaron

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2005, 03:56:39 PM »
Wow, that's amazing! I had heard vague talk about ciphers in the Bible but I didn't know that the meanings themselves hinged upon special codes. Are today's translations literally deciphered versions of the Bible in some sense or is it purely that certain words are placeholders for other words?

Cindy Smith

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Re: Codes in the Bible
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2005, 09:20:48 PM »
Aaron,

  Sometimes words have direct substitutes as in "Babylon" for "Rome."  An early Christian symbol was the fish.  This is because, in Greek, the acronym ICTHUS stood for Greek letters beginning the phrase "Jesus Christ Son of God Saviour."  The word "ichthus" itself means "fish."  When traveling Christians saw the sign of the fish as grafitti, they knew that there were Christians in the area.  The Bible contains a lot of numerology/gematria, as I said.  I only touched the surface.  Certainly, the Talmud has a lot of gematria, too.  If you are a preterist, as I tend to be, you believe that most of Revelation is not necessarily a portent of future events but is largely about the defeat of the Romans by the Parthians, among other events.  Obviously, Christians couldn't report about this gleefully in the open, so they wrote in code.  If anyone questioned them from the Roman authorities, they'd just say, "Oh, this is about ancient Babylon in the Hebrew Scriptures."  One of the reasons why many scholars believe that Peter preached in Rome is because 1 Peter 5:13 says, "The chosen one at Babylon sends you greeting, as does Mark, my son."  Who do you think the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are?  Who are the angels?  Who are the two witnesses?  Speculations abound on these questions.  It's sometimes difficult to decipher because the readers at the time in the first century knew a lot more than we do about what was going on.  An interesting question is who is the woman of Revelation 12?  Most scholars today believe that the woman represents virgin Israel, while some maintain that she is the Virgin Mary and still others believe she is both.  I think she is both.  A lot are symbols.  An example is the white amulet (white stone) mentioned in Revelation 2:17 and the hidden manna.  Among the Romans, the god emperor held a staff with seven stars in his right hand, and the author of revelation uses this phrase on 2:1 to mean that Christ is the true god emperor.  Oh, don't get me started.  I could go on and on.

Cindy Smith
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I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.  -- Revelation 22:13

beatrixz

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2005, 10:22:54 AM »
Hello, I'm new. I finally cracked the "Code of The Week" after 4-5 hours of logging in. I hope to be able to contribute, and rejuvenate this place a little.

Best Regards.

Aaron

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2005, 08:25:07 PM »
Awesome! :) I hope you enjoy your stay, and we are currently working on a listserv to keep everyone more involved.

Aaron

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2005, 01:01:10 PM »
Also, my apologies to any delays in accepting new forum members, I am currently in finals week.

Felicity

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2006, 10:08:19 PM »
I loved the puzzle to get in, actually a friend sent me the phrase and I was trying to solve it when I found this site.  Awesome, truly.

Aaron

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2006, 01:38:12 PM »
 ;D

Actually, one of the forum members made that puzzle as part of his website, I just gave him permission to design it so he could attract more members. ;) But I'm glad you found your way here. :)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2006, 02:00:17 PM by Aaron »

kdt

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2006, 07:09:22 AM »
hi tigerz

you are right in assuming this is a ceaser square. Youll notice that there are 16 numbers in total i.e 4x4
the numbers correspond to the chapter and if you take the first letter from the start of each chapter and arrange them as a ceaser square:
w e c g
e w h y
a a i o
r t n u
which reads "we are watching you". Dan Brown really seems to like his ceaser squares :S

Aaron

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2006, 02:02:46 PM »
An excellent game for anyone who likes puzzles would be Gabriel Knight, especially the third one. It tackles topics that are similar to what is mentioned in the Davinci Code, namely san greal vs sang real (holy grail vs royal blood) and the lineage of Christ.

Angelina

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2006, 08:55:06 AM »
Hi all, I am looking forward to some interesting and stimulating conversation here. :)

Anne

Aaron

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2006, 09:34:53 PM »
Welcome! :) Any interesting ciphers you have come across lately?

Stun90

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2006, 04:14:53 PM »
Brand spanking new newbie here. Just wanted to say hi.
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
- Albert Einstein

Aaron

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2006, 10:06:51 PM »
Hello Stun. :) What's your favorite cipher?

Stun90

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2006, 09:25:33 AM »
Gee Aaron, That is question with a few different answers. The first one that interested me is the Lewis and Clark expedition to the President. Learned about that in school just after I first stared to get into cyphers. Now my son brings this one up when he learns about it in school. Stirs up fascination from 30+ years ago.  It was not a great cypher but it was the first that was explained to me. My son and I sometimes leave messages to each other the same way that L&C did with the President Another favorite is the Zodiac killer cypher. I have been working on this one off and on, in my own humble way since I learned that the first three were solved. I am not into Vigenère ciphers at all. I really do not understand any second alphabets. I barely know our alphabet  ;D. Kryptos  fascinated me even though there are some who are thinking of Egyptian references, they are also looking for linguists to help solve this one (Linguists to help translate some passages on other sculptures). Again, a second alphabet is not my strong suit. But there are other avenues to persue this one. No, I am not attempting to solve this one alone. That would be insane. I am trying to work(in my own humble way)  with other groups. There are others cyphers but this is starting to get too long. Nice to meet you. Any new info about Zodiac or Kryptos would sure be appreciated.
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
- Albert Einstein

Aaron

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2006, 12:33:11 AM »
Yes, all of those sound very interesting. ;D The Zodiac Killer one is certainly intriguing, and supposedly they have a list of possible suspects but still don't know exactly who might have done it all. It would be odd if all the deaths were carefully orchestrated suicides, and the people who died all paid the same person for an elaborate way to look professionally "killed".

But then, that's stealing the plot of another movie entirely, maybe even two movies.

*plans to watch the Zodiac Killer movie one day, even if it might be a bit gruesome*

Stun90

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2006, 12:18:16 AM »
I have just very recently came across another cypher that I have not seen mentioned here in any forum. I want to read more about it before I post. Will probably ask others opinions if they think it is real or a hoax. Seems interesting to me but questions seem to surround it.
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
- Albert Einstein

Aaron

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2006, 01:19:29 AM »
Even hoaxes can have an interesting history, as long as no one tries to find the treasure if it is indeed a hoax.

And then there's plain delusion...
*recalls the one story he read about a guy who consulted a seer who told him that a ghost said something about treasure being buried on his land, so he dug a deeper and deeper hole for the rest of his life*

Also, an interesting puzzle book to read that includes ciphers is Puzzler's Elusion. If you figure out the answer and win the drawing (all the people who guessed right), you get a free trip to London. ;) I plan to buy that book soon...

Stun90

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2006, 10:40:33 AM »
Aaron, I agree that even a hoax cypher can have an interesting history. The one that I researching now has an interesting thread battle whether it is real or a hoax. I will probably post it in "Other Mysteries" probably this weekend. Debate it and see what happens. The good thing is that the debators and the quizzical people here are limited and would not contain any phony family members as compared to the other sites that I have seen it on. Maybe some here have already seen it.
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
- Albert Einstein